🍁 Trade Corridors

Carboy15

A refined Highway Corridor between Wawa and Sudbury would really help the Highway system.

Wawa to Sudbury
Distance: 531KM
Time:

Maps: 5 hours 52 mins
Calculated: 5.9h
Speed: 90KM/H

Times with Consistent Speed (KM/H):

100: 5.31h
110 : 4.83h
120: 4.43h

Wawa to Sudbury via Sultan
Distance: 418KM
Time (Maps):6 hours 29 mins

Times with Consistent Speed (KM/H):

90: 4.64h
100: 4.18h
110: 3.8h
120: 3.48h

This new Highway could possibly save us 1 hour of driving between Winnipeg and Toronto, along with that connector between Highway 11/17 West of Nipigon to Upsala bypassing Thunder Bay.

This alignment is similar to yours, but it would instead end before the Bridge.

brainstorm

Carboy15

If you plop a line on the map, the Wawa/White River route looks the best.

But switch to terrain view.

The geography of route is brutal. Rugged AF. All rock and shield. Also, there's a "curvature of the earth" thing at play. The northern route looks much farther to the eye. But it's actually not as far as it appears. That's why Hwy 11 is the winner here IMO.

To me it only makes sense to twin Sault St Marie to Sudbury. But twinning Sault St Marie northbound to Wawa doesn't make sense. I'd keep it two-way traffic due to geographic and AADT. Use some variation of Hwy 11 as the cross country route TCH designation from GTA to Winnipeg.

Carboy15

Red: Existing Road
Blue: New Road

I also thought of a better Nezar to Dinorwic connector in order to have a Secondary Road North of Nipigon.

Dinorwic to Nezah Corner Connector

Dinorwic to Savant Lake North Intersection - 171 KM
Savant Lake to Armstrong Connector - _118KM
Armstrong to Nezah - 222 KM

Total Approximate Route:
511KM

Speed:
90KM/H

Total Approx Time:

Dinorwic to Nezah via Highway 17 and 11

Total Route:
520 KM

Total Time:
Maps: 5 hr 38 min
Calculated: 5.78 hr

Speed:
90KM/H

Maybe this wouldn't be a quicker Route than 17 and 11, but incase of a Bridge Failure and connection to the towns up North there, it would make sense. And a Road between Savant Lake and Armstrong would run parallel to the CN Mainline. Between Armstrong and Nezah corner (at Highway 11), that gravel road could be upgraded and paved.

brainstorm

Carboy15

Ya those northern tentacles start begging the question if they should tie into our Port Nelson to James Bay road too. Maybe. Jury is still out for me personally. Definitely a lower priority link if so.

You're 100% correct about how critical the Nipigon Bridge is though. Multiple links are important.

But with what we've been proposing, 3 layers of East/West redundancy are achieved here. That's pretty solid.

Carboy15

For sure. Anywhere around Lake Nipigon and Lake Superior has some pretty rugged terrain. Although not really needed, an upgraded Sultan Road could provide an alternative to 17, but could conflict with the logging industries. Neither would it really be easier to twin than Highway 17, albeit saving 100KM.

But above all, building roads in Northern Ontario is pretty easy compared to building through the Rocky Mountains.

brainstorm

Just to show the northern "arc" effect, here's a straight line from Kitimat to Saguenay. Look how far north it ends up. Look how closely this direct line falls on our northern route posted here in yellow.

It also passes right through James Bay too. In fact, dragging this direct route up to Port Nelson doesn't even add 100km to the total 4,000km cross country route. So this corridor is hugely efficient and strategic.

lio45

One factor that you guys haven't considered (unless I've missed it) in the 11 vs 17 debate for the TCH route to pick through Ontario, is that the 11 gets another little extra edge with starting locations in Eastern Quebec or the Maritimes because you can avoid most of the Montreal traffic by going through the Laurentians and Abitibi. In this case you never pass through North Bay so you'll be taking the 11 for sure.

Starting in Quebec City or in Trois-Rivières, and wanting to drive west to the Prairies, it makes sense to take the 40 to the Mtl North Shore, then the outermost bypass freeway (640) to the Laurentian Autoroute (15) which you take all the way north until it stops being a freeway, then you keep going all the way (it's already a branch of the TCH, for the record; Quebec Route 117) until you connect to the 11 in Ontario.

Geographically shorter but also, no Montreal traffic, nor Ottawa traffic (if that even exists, I don't recall it...)

lio45

(Just looked it up, you save 85 km AND probably more importantly, you bypass most of the Montreal traffic. The path that adds 85 km goes straight through Montreal with the Metropolitan Freeway; good if it's 3 am when you're going through, but otherwise, you'll lose a lot of time. And if you want to bypass Mtl the other way, it's a toll road and it'll add more than just 85 km to your trip.)

brainstorm

lio45 Absolutely agree. The Hwy 11 vs Hwy 17 segment is just a zoomed portion of this overall vision I proposed above. I know, brain-dump overload. 🤣

Current Roads (w/ Proposals)

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Final Product (~ $110B cost)

lio45

^ That's somewhat Western-centric though: the relative "boomtowns" of Halifax and Moncton are completely left out...? 😛

Why not at least extend that green line from the Quebec City area to Halifax in your drawing? It basically already exists (freeway 20, freeway 85 getting completely twinned, freeway in NB through Edmundston and going south, I'm pretty sure from that point that it's twinned all the way to Halifax actually!)

brainstorm

lio45 Why not at least extend that green line from the Quebec City area to Halifax in your drawing? It basically already exists

That's why your voice is so valuable being in the East. I'm unfamiliar. Is this not already fully twinned from QC to NB/NS? Which parts still need twinning or grade separation?

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lio45 I don't think your Northern (red) Branches are worth it.

I agree. I have this leg as the lowest priority to build.

But it still has value. MB/ON still has Indian Reserves who don't even have all-weather roads. They have to fly stuff in all year, and they only get like 6 weeks of ice roads to bring heavier goods in (building materials, cars, fuel etc). This route connects some of these reserves to the all-weather network.

Note, this leg would also have lines (twinned), possible pipeline(s), and maybe power transmission. It's truly a "corridor". So you could think of the "road" portion as just a "service road" for these other modalities.

lio45

Also, I don't think your Northern Branches (red, i.e. single-lane, in the "completed" image) are worth it, I'd rather we focus on a high-quality twinned network further south, then "going north" as the final leg of the trip essentially. It's fine if whatever North Bay ON to Churchill MB traffic we have, goes through Winnipeg instead. For example.

Acajacques

brainstorm That's why your voice is so valuable being in the East. I'm unfamiliar. Is this not already fully twinned from QC to NB/NS? Which parts still need twinning or grade separation

It's not entirely done but almost. There are about 8-10 km left to be twinned on A-85 between Rivière-du-Loup and Edmundston. Should be finished within the next year or so.

After that there will be an uninterrupted freeway from Windsor ON to Halifax and even parts of NS northwest and southwest of Halifax, and also getting close to the crossing to Cape Breton Island.

And also a full freeway from Arnprior ON west of Ottawa to the Maritimes.

I will be driving the A-85 corridor later this summer so expect an update from me afterwards on what it looks like at the moment.

brainstorm

Also, don't forget the Ring Of Fire.

It's smack dab in the middle of this leg. Ontario has already pledged to open it up and build a road already. If they picked this route they could hit 4 or 5 birds with 1 stone.

lio45

Right, as a "service road for the pipeline / powerline" it's entirely reasonable (to ALSO have a road there). And as a bonus, anyone who's fine with the higher collision risk can also use it if they want - would be a shortcut, geographically. (Personally, when I've done things like Sherbrooke-Vancouver by car, I've always preferred going through the US for their excellent all-twinned interstate system... why take a risk with less safe and less pleasant roads if it can be helped?)

brainstorm

lio45 when I've done things like Sherbrooke-Vancouver by car, I've always preferred going through the US

Yup I hear you. Exactly why we need to build our TCH better.

That includes the Hwy 11 twinning with minimum 120km/h design speed in Ontario. But also MB/SK/AB grade separation for preferably 140-150km/h speed limits. Or more. There's no reason why not, our prairies are flat and straight. Check out the speed limit thread on that topic. Canada should be leading the world!

brainstorm

@Carboy15 Good ideas in the MB Roads thread. Many link into this.

Here's the best Fort Mac to Port Nelson connector route I can see. I highlighted all the existing roads with street view (blue) to show that under 900km of new road is needed (yellow). About 400km of existing road can be used/upgraded. Another reason Port Nelson is better than Churchill. The reasons keep piling up.

This would also create a northern "trunk" for all these blue north/south roads that currently dead end.

Carboy15

For sure. That yellow Highway would make a great Fort McMurray-Port Nelson Corridor along with a pipeline. A unified Highway 80 corridor would be the best number for it, along with an extension to Grande Prairie via new road from Fort McMurray to Highway 986 in AB.

Carboy15

I also looked at HIghway 2 in SK. It ends at La Ronge SK, but continues North as 102 and Connects to 905, which goes to Black Lake SK (albeit not as an all weather road the entire length). At least is that Highway could be paved and upgraded to an all weather road status, it would end not far from the NWT Border if you continue to Stony Rapids (under 100km away). That may not have as much benefits now, but it would be another trophy LOL .

Carboy15

Northern Manitoba Corridor Ideas:

Blue (Existing/Road Upgrades):

Kinoosao to Sundance Highway (Possible Highway 28 or 80)
Highway 6; Rename Highway 391 from Thompson to HIghway 28 Junction)
Highway 39 Corridor from Flin Flon to Norway House.

Yellow (New Roads):

Highway 10 extension from Cranberry Portage to Lynn Lake, Lynn Lake to Nunavut?
Highway 6 extension to Rankin Inlet NU
Highway 90 from Churchill to Sundance, Sundance to Port Nelson, Port Nelson to Shammattawa, Shammattawa to Moosonee?
Churchill to Highway 6 connector
Shammattawa to Berens River? Connector. Possible Highway 59 extension
Highway 39 extension from Norway House to Saint Theresa Point, St Theresa Point to Ontario?
Gods Lake Circle and Oxford House connector
Kinoosao to Southend SK? Connector.
Fort McMurray-Port Nelson Connector (Highway 28 or 80 Alternate Route)

brainstorm

Busiest Canadian Air Routes

Rank	Route	Flights/Month	Seats/Month
1	Vancouver (YVR) – Toronto (YYZ)	817	183,705
2	Montreal-Trudeau (YUL) – Toronto (YYZ)	910	151,688
3	Calgary (YYC) – Toronto (YYZ)	600	105,672
4	Ottawa (YOW) – Toronto (YYZ)	600	93,603
5	Montreal-Trudeau (YUL) – Vancouver (YVR)	348	90,014
6	Vancouver (YVR) – Calgary (YYC)	512	81,707
7	Halifax (YHZ) – Toronto (YYZ)	474	80,106
8	Edmonton (YEG) – Toronto (YYZ)	360	65,568
9	Winnipeg (YWG) – Toronto (YYZ)	360	56,814
10	Montreal-Trudeau (YUL) – Calgary (YYC)	238	55,840
11	Edmonton (YEG) – Vancouver (YVR)	286	42,938
12	Halifax (YHZ) – Montreal-Trudeau (YUL)	228	42,532
13	Ottawa (YOW) – Vancouver (YVR)	180	38,160
14	Moncton (YQM) – Toronto (YYZ)	150	28,350
15	Montreal-Trudeau (YUL) – Winnipeg (YWG)	180	27,340

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Source: https://aviationa2z.com/index.php/2025/06/23/air-canada-30-busiest-domestic-routes-in-2025-no-8-will-surprise-you/

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