Winnipeg Roads

brainstorm

Wondering how much Mill & Fill costs per lane-km, in Winnipeg in 2025?

It's about $375,000 per lane-km.

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Here's the bid results for roughly 12 lane-km on Portage Ave. Keep in mind this includes 2.8 lane-km of "rehabilitation". So actual mill & fill may be closer to $300k or below per lane-km.

Merx Bids: (source)
Construction Map: (source)

brainstorm

Cost to mill & fill all Winnipeg main routes:

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Total main route lane-kms: 1,800km
Mill & Fill cost per lane-km: $375,000
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Total cost: $675 million
2025 road budget: $170 million
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So if all road dollars were directed entirely to main routes, every main route in Winnipeg could be mill & filled in 3-4 years, without a single increase to the road budget. This is the power of prioritization and efficiency.

Carboy15

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-25-year-transportation-plan-1.7555088

brainstorm

$133 million upgrade to Marion. How TF are they spending $30m per km? They're basically doing nothing except repaving and adding bike lanes? They didn't even do the Dugald connector that @Carboy15 suggested.

This city council needs a purge. All of them.

Carboy15

Personally, I find that how they percieve the need to upgrade Marion Street to be a bit exaggerated. For the railway tracks, I don't think that line gets as much rail traffic as the CPR Mainline (Keewatin and Carberry Subdivisions) does. Plus, this is another reason why that rail relocation needs to happen. Not to mention that Route 90 needs the underpasses more than on Marion.

Also too, it's kinda dumb that they don't want to make that Dugald and Marion connector. Not to mention that we already have the roads there, we just need to widen it ande redesign it.

Carboy15

brainstorm

Carboy15

Hey wait. This Dugald Connector pic looks like a professional drawing. Did CoW propose this somewhere? Where is this from?

This is exactly what should happen here. It's perfect. 😍

Carboy15

Yep. Lack of forward thinking. The traffic light on Lag @ Marion is a pain in the bum-bum already. Why not just remove one Intersection on Lagimodiere and have one less traffic light?

Carboy15

Biff posted it on SSP Page 340 Winnipeg Roads and Infrastructure

Carboy15

And with railway underpasses, the Marion and Dugald AADT is lower than most other roads in Winnipeg.

How about building railway overpasses/underpasses on Abinoji Mikanah or Fermor at the CP Emerson Sub? How about Route 90 at the CP La Riviere Sub? I know this is a Provincial Highway, but The Perimeter @ Dugald and CP Emerson needs it more.

brainstorm

Carboy15 Bingo. 🎯

This all ties in to the rail yard relocation too. We need to go through and identify how many potential overpasses would be avoided if the rail lines were moved.

I can almost guarantee the savings from avoiding these overpasses will far exceed any costs from moving the rail lines and building a rail bypass like this.

Carboy15

brainstorm

Totally. The CN Rivers and Reddit Subdivision, since it has many rail overpasses, it could help make Commuter Rail, Light Rail, and Intercity rail more reliable. The Via Lines would have uninterupted travel and less conflict with freight trains.

Plus, this could even prepare for High Speed Rail in the future. It will be a while before High Speed Rail comes to Western Canada, because the Calgary to Edmonton and Toronto to Quebec City line needs to be built first.

Carboy15

This video shows why we need to build more dedicated passenger rail lines. I think this happened by mistake as the CP Train wasn't supposed to be using the line or something like that. But our passenger trains and freight trains use the same line most of the time.

Carboy15

But anyways, what's your opinion on this design for roads? I heard Dugald Road is getting pavement renewals between Plessis Road and Ravenhurst Street, but it will probably be a 2-lane road like it is now. I feel like it should be upgraded with a median turning lane for access to local properties.

Route 115 in general needs upgrades from Archibald to the Perimeter. The Dugald and Marion connector via Panet Road needs to be done to remove an Intersection at Lagimodiere. And Twinning of Dugald Road between Plessis and the Perimeter could be done, but I'm not sure if they'd just expropriate the houses alongside the road and make a service road to Malteurop (as I drew on Stroadz) or if they would bypass South Transcona. The 2 lane config with median turning lane could be sufficient for the time being.

brainstorm

Carboy15 I'm good with it. Keeping turning traffic to a dedicated, shared lane is safe and efficient. Works if they aren't twinning it. They probably should twin it I think.

On High Speed Rail, the sweet spot for HSR is 100-500km. So Winnipeg is too far from most places of size to make HSR valuable. The Calgary-Edmonton corridor makes sense for HSR. As does Windsor-to-Montreal. But connecting into those makes more sense by air still.

brainstorm

By the way, holy crap is this site easy and slick to use. Never mind SSP, it's almost better than Twitter. 🤣

Carboy15

Also, I think lots of those 4-lane undivided roads should use those middle turning lanes. Such as Henderson Highway North of the Perimeter, Main Street North of the Perimeter too (although it would be better a divided road, I feel like it could accomidate Bike Lanes too).

brainstorm

Simple way to prioritize street repaving. First, classify road conditions:

TERRIBLE - Repave immediately.
POOR - Repave within 2yrs.
FAIR - Fine for 3-5yrs.
GOOD - Good for 5yrs+.
EXCELLENT - Repaved 2yrs ago.
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Then, using snow removal's P1, P2, P3 street designations, repave streets in the following order:

1st ...... Any P1's in Terrible (1) condition.
2nd .... Any P1's in Poor (2) condition.
3rd ..... Any P2's in Terrible (1) condition.
4th ..... Any P2's in Poor (2) condition.
5th ..... Any P1's in Fair (3) condition.
6th ..... Any P3 in Terrible (1) condition. (residential)
7th ..... Only now can new road expansions be considered (Chief Peguis, Overpasses, Transitways, etc)

Mill & Fill or Cold-In-Place Recycling is used wherever possible. No concrete, too slow. This is how you dig out of the infrastructure crisis in the fastest, most efficient manner. It's common sense and shouldn't even need posting.

Winnipeg Snow Removal P1, P2 designations (residential P3's hidden).

Carboy15

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/columnists/gold-marion-bike-lane-poses-threat-to-st-boniface-business-district

https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/commentary/bike-lanes-dont-cause-congestion-cars-do/

Carboy15

Although I may have opposed this, I feel like Winnipeg should maybe propose a Crosstown Freeway to support truck traffic. Removing truck traffic from arterial roads and streets would help improve safety for vehicles and pedestrians. All of the plans would contain land expropriation, but depends which one has benefits that outweight the expropriation. Between Lag @ Paterson and Fermor, I decided to make a minor freeway that would act as an exit lane to connect Fermor and Lag for smopother travel.

Option 1:

Serves Most industrial areas like Marion Industrial, St James Industrial, Airport, Symington Yards, Centreport Canada, etc
Most of the route could be built on or besides railways and rail beds. Bonus: It would use some land from the CP Logan Yards.
Least amount of land expropriation.
The Airport Area would be harder to cut through.
There could be congestion potential on Lagimodiere between Regent and Fermor.

Option 2:

Goes right through Marion Industrial Park, making access to industries easier for trucks.
Reduces congestion potential on Lag between Regent and Maginot Street

Option 3:

Not Recommended:

Doesn't really serve any industrial areas, only the Airport/St James and Symington Yards
Cuts through multiple neighbourhoods, only creating more noise and pollution
Wouldn't serve much of a better purpose than the Perimeter or the existing Strategic Inner Ring Road Plan
Would destroy a historical area like Wellington Crescent

brainstorm

Carboy15 Ya. Agree with you and Biff's idea there. Pass my regards to him on SSP.

Option 1 is best. From Ferry to Main(ish) could use some refining. Possibly linking up with McPhillips. But ya.

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